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MOre wetting than we think?? (topic for discussion)

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  • MOre wetting than we think?? (topic for discussion)

    How many women have wet knickers??

    Thinking about the number of women I have seen with a hand pressed between their legs, presumably in an attempt to contain a desperate need to pee, (“holding their crutch” I would say, though some disagree with this basic, plain English, expression.) I was surprised to remember that most of them were wearing jeans, or some type of trousers. Now, I assume that in England, where I have most experience of such matters, more than half the female population wear skirts, so I asked myself, why do women wearing jeans need to hold their crutch more than women wearing skirts?
    Could it be that for women wearing skirts, the risk of wetting themselves, or even letting go a small leak of pee, is less embarrassing than the risk of being seen holding their crutch, an action that is a social taboo.
    Couple this to the fact that the only women that I have seen to have wet have been wearing jeans, and I began to wonder if some skirts are hiding wet, or at least, damp, knickers??
    Another line of thinking is that, as a male, there have been times when I have been walking in town, in great need of a pee, and seeing the cost of using a pubic toilet in London, (50p or US$ 0.80, in most cases) I have thought enviously of women in skirts who would be able to pee through their knickers and down their legs, only needing to take care they are standing in the right place. (I found, and have lost, and entire web-page devoted to this topic.) Maybe women are brought up to be prepared to pay for the chance of a pee, while men are spoiled by normally peeing for free, but there are fewer women’s facilities than men’s, especially late at night.
    So, I ask for comments from this board: do women sometimes pee under their skirts, and nothing shows on the outside? Do they deliberately wear thin knickers and take care not to sit down to keep this a secret?

    Normal people, those who do not have a pee fetish, and do not read this board, generally regard wetting as something that they must not ever, ever, do; while we, the enlightened ones, know that it is nothing terrible and often a pleasure, leading only to social rejection when the results are visible.
    Maybe ‘normal’ women do not set out to deliberately wet, but as they desperately search to find a toilet to ease their bursting bladder, the urge to pee rises to danger level, and then they prefer a small squirt, or two, into their knickers, to being seen with a hand pressed between their legs, which usually means only one thing.
    If they are wearing jeans, then, they know, that any leaks will be visible to the world, and must be stopped, and if the only way is to press a hand between their legs, then they will do this. Perhaps they think, correctly, that being seen ‘crutch holding’ is a transient thing, but a wet patch will linger all night, and tell everybody that she has wet herself.

    I apologise for a long posting, but listening to past criticism, I have some paragraph breaks this time. I offer this as a basis for discussion and input from other board members, particularly female, and possibly some experiences and sightings to prove the point.
    Also, I am an old-fashioned English man, so please allow me to us the term ‘crutch’ for the area between a woman’s legs, and jeans/trousers for the garment they are afraid of showing a wet patch. I know US reader would prefer ‘crotch’ and ‘pants,’

    There is history in this, since it is commonly stated that in the 18th and 19th Century, when facilities for women’s comfort were rare, it was quite normal for all women to pee down their legs as they walked about the town. Their underwear at the time was only layers of underskirts, and no drawers or anything between their legs, perhaps to make it easier to pee like this, and streets were dirtier with all the horse manure left in the road. Period cartoons also show that women often peed standing up, lifting the front of their skirts and pelvis pushed forward, let go a torrent of pee. Easier that gathering up all those layers of skirts and pulling them up round her waist and then squatting to pee??

  • #2
    We may never know. Perhaps you could do a survey?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paul Tester
      How many women have wet knickers??

      Thinking about the number of women I have seen with a hand pressed between their legs, presumably in an attempt to contain a desperate need to pee....

      I was surprised to remember that most of them were wearing jeans, or some type of trousers.... why do women wearing jeans need to hold their crutch more than women wearing skirts?...

      Couple this to the fact that the only women that I have seen to have wet have been wearing jeans, and I began to wonder if some skirts are hiding wet, or at least, damp, knickers??...

      So, I ask for comments from this board: do women sometimes pee under their skirts, and nothing shows on the outside? Do they deliberately wear thin knickers and take care not to sit down to keep this a secret?...

      Maybe ‘normal’ women do not set out to deliberately wet, but as they desperately search to find a toilet to ease their bursting bladder, the urge to pee rises to danger level, and then they prefer a small squirt, or two, into their knickers, to being seen with a hand pressed between their legs, which usually means only one thing....

      If they are wearing jeans, then, they know, that any leaks will be visible to the world, and must be stopped, and if the only way is to press a hand between their legs, then they will do this....

      There is history in this, since it is commonly stated that in the 18th and 19th Century, when facilities for women’s comfort were rare, it was quite normal for all women to pee down their legs as they walked about the town. Their underwear at the time was only layers of underskirts, and no drawers or anything between their legs...
      Excellent discussion, Paul!

      My own feeling is that there are many women who will happily pee through their underwear under a skirt. There are some who actually are brought up with this concept as the female alternative to men's "whipping it out". I find it no surprise at all to hear that most women who are seen crotch holding are in jeans, and almost none in skirts. Curiously, the one time I have ever seen a woman crotch holding in a skirt, she was doing it with her hand up under her skirt, so she was holding through her underwear, presumable in order to avoid wetting her skirt if she leaked.

      I also think this is an exercise in relatively simple logic. I hardly think women wear skirts because they DON'T leak in their underwear. Much more likely they wear skirts so they CAN leak in their underwear. It's not a given of course - there will be women who leak in their underwear who wear jeans and put up with wet crotches and the need to crotch hold, and there will be women who don't who just prefer skirts, but your observation that most crotch holders wear jeans tends to indicate a correlation.

      Your historical reference is also interesting. While I note that yes, at some points in history women wore no form of pants as undergarments, this has not always been true. There are the odd snippets of information about this on the net from time to time, including references to the fact that women were expect to not need to "go" - it was not ladylike. In fact women wore pantaloons at one point, with ties which could be undone on the legs to let out a #2 if necessary. Presumably a #1 was dealt with by simply peeing in and through the pantaloons.

      My own investigations have shown that pants, panties, undies, knickers, whatever, are considered by many women to be something that they can use to cover their crotches as they pee - that they can squat and lift their skirts to pee through their panties, and that keeping their crotches out of view was the primary reason for wearing them. This is not at all uncommon from what I've seen. Percival, I HAVE actually done some surveys on this and it appears this is the case, at least among the respondents to the surveys.

      A related issue is the prevalence of women who prefer to wear black pants/shorts/trousers primarily because of the fact that black hides wetness. This I also have confirmed through surveys. There are many who will claim that these surveys are answered by men posing as women. I believe the nature of the surveys concerned does not attract men in that way, so I believe they can be trusted in that regard.

      Comment


      • #4
        From browsing a few medical related boards, incontinence is surprisingly common among adult women, especially if they have had any children. Somewhere I saw an estimate that 25% of women over the age of 25 have some form of urinary incontinence issue.

        Comment


        • #5
          More wetting by women?

          In France, during the ruling of the Sun King, Louis XIV, it was very common for women to drop their solid or liquid waste just anywhere where it was convenient. Due to the stink, the French perfume industry started to bloom. Two centuries (or a little more) later after the French revolution the government (called Le Directoire, 1795-1799) decided this business of dropping female excrement and pee everywhere, had to stop and ordered the women to wear underpants. Underpants for women have, in many countries been called `directoire` for a long time, after the government that ordered this. I assume that in the beginning after this proclamation there will have been quite some `accidents` as women, not only in France, were less experienced to hold their poop and pee.

          Comment


          • #6
            At the risk of being like a moderator, let's not get off topic and onto the delightful topic of the history of women's underwear. That needs a new thread if someone will start one.
            I was hoping that some of the females on this board would give some input; I have had correspondence from one female who has admitted to 'leaking' as she hurries to the toilet, but had never thought of deliberaely peeing down her legs. Is this what some women do?? Sort of give up the struggle to hold their pee and let a few dribble go as they search for a toilet??
            I have seen a web-site devoted to the techniques for women to pee through their knicker in public places but did not bookmark it.
            Do some women deliberately dress for an evening or day out in clothes and underwear that will allow a few leaks if they get caught out.??

            Comment


            • #7
              I have done it more than a few times while wearing a skirt. Most of the time it was in some sort of public place where going to the bathroom was not convenient -- for example a rock festival where I would have had to thread my way through a huge crowd to get to the toilets, or a Renaissance Faire where the line to the porta-potties was absolutely endless because of all those complex garments that took the gals a while to unravel. At the concert, I was wearing a kind of tight little denim skirt and was just letting it leak out because in my skimpy garb I was afraid that it would show if I just cut loose. At the Renaissance Faire I was wearing a much longer, looser skirt, sort of like a tavern wench outfit, and I told my bf what I was going to do. The faire was being held in a park with lots of trees surrounding the booths and exhibits, so I ducked behind a tree while my bf stood guard and that time I really did just cut loose in my big old white nylon full briefs. Because I drink tons of water (health nut, big believer in hydration), it did not have that ammoniac smell, so I just continued to hang out at the faire, though I was careful not to sit down. Only the bf knew I was wet underneath.

              Of course, I am a fetishist about it (otherwise I would not be here, right?), so I don't know how many "vanilla" gals do this, but I do have a friend named Sarah who is a really good candidate for "stress incontinence" incidents, as she is in her mid 40's, has two children, and is pretty much of a "bawdy old cougar," by which I mean quite uninhibited. She has made some comments and allusions which could be interpreted to mean that sometimes she secretly goes in her pants, but I have never asked her directly if that was what she meant.

              I don't want to get too far off topic either, but for those who wonder about 19th century women "doin' it in their pantaloons," the classic source is an essay called "Undinism" by Havelock Ellis. Someone else here started a thread among "old farts" who could remember when women wore pants less often and dresses or skirts more frequently, combined with complex undergarments like girdles, etc., which were hard to unfasten, and back in those days, late 1950's early 1960's, when "social drinking" took place at a level which would now be classified as chronic alcoholism, there were plenty of accidents, and I can attest to that much, since I remember part of the 60's as a young girl, and my Aunt Teresa, who was more than a bit of a lush and wore tiny little late 1960's style mini-skirts with girdles underneath, sometimes wet her pants because she couldn't get her girdle unfastened quickly enough, and I know that her "incidents" had an influence on my own fetishism. She had a boyfriend, Anglo dude, not Hispanic like us, kind of a grumpy middle-aged insurance salesman kind of guy, who always had a lecherous expression on his face when she said she had had an accident, so I kind of think that sometimes she was doing it on purpose.

              In conclusion, let me say that my bf and I have lots of fantasies about me doing it in my tight faded jeans in public, and he would love it if I did, but like most people I just can't get up enough nerve to do it, even though I fantasize about it a lot and think it would probably feel incredibly erotic.

              Comment


              • #8
                There have to be women that wear skirts and take advantage of them to discreetly wet their panties. And many of them are probably one of us.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Some One I Know

                  I know of one such woman . Who lives in the U.K. that like to wet in skirts while standing at the bar or even sitting with Her friends . That she just lets it all go where ever she might be , When the urge strikes . To take a wee

                  In fact she has written about several of Her peeing experiences on other Forums I am also on . That I know Her well . Since I sometimes correspond with Her about Her pee fetish She has .

                  Plus I have seen a fw photos and a video of Her weeing while sitting at a table in a pub once . Which I believe if you GOOGLE Search Pauly Peeps . You might find something interesting about this woman
                  I don't know rather or not She is a member here . Though She might be

                  Dusty Harold

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Peevert
                    There have to be women that wear skirts and take advantage of them to discreetly wet their panties. And many of them are probably one of us.
                    And the more I think about this... take a look through Aloo's post this month. Lots of peed in jeans and shorts. I don't think I saw a single wet skirt. Women have to be realizing that they can discreetly pee their panties in skirts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Actually, there are numbers already, and they're WAY higher than you think

                      OK, the interesting numbers are:

                      "How many women in the 20-30 age bracket are incontinent?"

                      "How many women in the 20-30 age bracket report *any* involuntary loss of urine in the last 30 days?"

                      Start with the first one: "How many women in the 20-30 age bracket are incontinent?"



                      Answer: depends on the survey and the definitions, but it's WAY higher than you think among young women.

                      10.5% to 13.5% of women in their 20's are incontinent.

                      Those numbers are for healthy, nulliparous (never given birth) young women; they exclude developmental delays, obesity, and long-term illness.


                      That's the number coming back from surveys, and it narrows down to 10.5 to 12.5% in the small number of studies where there's follow-up and measurement. Note that clinical incontinence has a very 'fuzzy' definition - 'Incontinence is regular involuntary loss of urine that constitutes a social and hygienic problem, and can be objectively demonstrated' - and that tells you very little about what happens and how often.

                      There are harder numbers when we take out 'mild incontinence, whatever that is: 2.4% comes out as 'moderate' incontinence, and 0.7% as 'severe' - and you are probably never going to see an attractive young woman in those last two categories actually wetting herself because they either wear a diaper or they're getting treatment for it.

                      Note, however, that the 0.7% population isn't going down with an increasing likelihood of treatment: traffic accidents and peripheral nerve damage (mostly from the few effective antibiotics that we still have left) are happening every day to otherwise-healthy women in their 20's. And of all ages, for that matter.



                      "How many women in the 20-30 age bracket report *any* involuntary loss of urine in the last 30 days?"

                      Answer:30-31%, and that's a *very* well-researched number. However, it covers any loss, and the majority of it is probably drips and tiny spurts that no-one ever saw: that number probably has very few events that we would call a 'wetting' - total loss of control and the release of half or all the urine in her bladder.

                      Those numbers are for healthy, nulliparous (never given birth) young women; they exclude developmental delays, obesity, and long-term illness.

                      That 30% with 'any loss in the last 30 days' includes the 10+ percent who are incontinent, and ought to speak to their doctor about it: but less than half of them ever will.

                      Interesting for us is that it leaves 20% of all healthy women in their 20's, all of whom are *not* incontinent, and all of whom have leaked a little or a lot.

                      And an unknown number of those 'any involuntary loss' events were total soakings.

                      If we assume that all of them were invisible dribbles, you can safely say that if you walk through town and see a hundred attractive women, one of them has definitely shared her underwear and a part of her day with a little bit of wee.

                      My best guess for more visible accidents is that if you take a hundred women in their 20's - healthy and attractive and not, in their own opinion, incontinent - you'll get four or five major wettings every year.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Betanumeric
                        10.5% to 13.5% of women in their 20's are incontinent.
                        Where are these statistics coming from? Can you post a link to legitimate research?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Peevert
                          Where are these statistics coming from? Can you post a link to legitimate research?
                          Google be your friend here. Just search for incontinence and you'll start discovering all sorts of studies and discussions from sites and boards all over the place.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks, Delta

                            I'd just like to see if the original poster has anything to backup his claims.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Weeing down one's leg

                              I especially recall my mum telling my sister to 'Wee down your leg' one time when she was obviously really badly in need of relief. I was told to stay in the car - and not look while she had the poor girl stand straight and relax. It took an age before she found the courage to break the taboo of not wetting ones self. It hadn't occurred to me (or my sister) that she could end up with wee in her shoes but mum found some tissues to dry her off. I was actually envious of the attention she got. Some years later my sister admitted to me that she had found relief on quite a few occasions that way. She always wore skirts as I remember, so that's probably why she was able to gain relief that way.

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